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Износ резины и самоблокирующийся дифференциал

  • Автор темы Viktor(21059)
  • Дата начала
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Viktor(21059)

Новичок
Дек
2
0
Имеет ли кто-то опыт эксплуатации шин спереди и сзади с разной степенью износа (например износ 50% на одной оси - примерно 4 мм, а на другой оси новые) и благополучно ли это закончилось для вискомуфты (на WRX или Форестере с ручной коробкой)? Или может кто знает при какой разнице в оборотах непосредственно на вискомуфте начинается ее блокировка (или перегрев например)- тогда легко подсчитать допустимую разницу в диаметрах шин.
 
С

Семён

Новичок
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0
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Viktor(21059) написал(а):
благополучно ли это закончилось для вискомуфты
исходя из теоритических знаний, ничем хорошим это не может кончится, поэтому лучше не эксперементировать и купить одинаковые 4 колеса... сам пользую 2 месяца зимнюю резину с разным рисунком протектора по осям, но с примерно одинаковой степенью износа, пока никаких отклонений от нормы не наблюдается.
 
Л

Лесник из Мериленда

Субарист
Фев
0
6
http://www.subaru.com/owners/carcaretips/index.jsp?pageid=tire&navid=TIRED_TIRES
http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4988&d=1153966300
Tire Wear/Rotation/Replacement/Temporary Spare Tire Operation

We all know that tires wear. There are certain things you, as an owner, can do to help minimize this wear.

1. Keep your tires properly inflated. This is perhaps the single most important thing you can do. Information on correct tire inflation pressure is provided in your owner's manual and on a placard on the driver's door pillar. How often you check your tire inflation is up to you. As a rule of thumb, tires should be checked every time you fill your car with gas. Remember that tires should be checked when cold since tire pressure will increase as the tires warm up.
2. Rotate your tires regularly. SUBARU recommends tires be rotated every 7,500 miles. These are recommended intervals only. Your actual driving conditions may warrant more frequent rotation. Factors such as road surfaces, driving techniques/habits, vehicle loading, and weather, to name just a few, can all have an effect on tire wear.
3. When replacing tires, it is always recommended that you choose tires of the same type, size, construction, and manufacturer as those present on the vehicle as original equipment.

On All-Wheel Drive (AWD) vehicles, it is extremely important that the rolling or outer circumferences of the tires be within 1/4 inch of each other. This means that you must physically measure the size of the tire. This is best done with the weight of the vehicle off the tire and at the tread centerline. Also be certain that the tires are properly inflated since this can affect your readings.

If you need to replace just one tire, the same holds true. The measured difference in circumference between the replacement tire and the other tires on the vehicle cannot exceed 1/4 inch.

Depending on the vehicle mileage, it might be better to replace all four tires.

If the vehicle mileage is low and the tires have been rotated and driven at the proper inflation pressures, then you may be within the allowable 1/4-inch difference in circumference.

If the difference between the new/replacement tire and the current tires is within this 1/4-nch maximum, then the tire should be compatible. If it is not, then other tires will need to be replaced to conform to the 1/4-inch rule.

Exceeding this 1/4-inch difference in tire circumference can place unnecessary wear on drivetrain components, possibly causing them to wear out prematurely.

If your vehicle is AWD (All-Wheel Drive) with an automatic transmission and the temporary spare tire has been installed, put a spare fuse (15 amp) inside the FWD (Front-Wheel Drive) fuse holder (refer to your owner's manual for location). Confirm that the Front-Wheel Drive (FWD) warning light comes on before you drive the car. Installation of this fuse deactivates AWD to prevent possible damage to the drivetrain components that can result due to the use of the smaller temporary spare tire. After re-installing the conventional tire, remove the fuse from the FWD fuse holder to restore AWD operation.

For more information on tires and temporary spare tire usage, always consult your Subaru owner's manual.
Не надо дельту 50% ставить.
 
Е

евген

Субарист
Ноя
0
16
может привести банально к сносу задка в повороте(неисправимому)-только одинаковый износ,это не монопривод,где такие вещи можно вытворять
 
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Viktor(21059)

Новичок
Дек
2
0
Спасибо. 1/4 дюйма как предел по окружности шины дает с достаточной точностью 2 мм по диаметру или предельный износ 1 мм. Достаточно жесткое требование. Или ездить со скоростью = максимальная скорость разделить на разницу в износе шин по осям в мм. :D
Семен, замерьте,если будет время, длину окружности колес передних и задних. Я замерил на новой RE001 225/50R17 (металлической рулеткой) - оказалось,что шина больше теоретического размера на 4,8 мм по диаметру. А на стандартной запаске Геолендер отличие тоже в плюс,но только на 1,4 мм по диаметру. А на некоторых других шинах отличие в минус.
 
Л

Лесник из Мериленда

Субарист
Фев
0
6
Exceeding this 1/4-inch difference in tire circumference can place unnecessary wear on drivetrain components, possibly causing them to wear out prematurely.

If your vehicle is AWD (All-Wheel Drive) with an automatic transmission and the temporary spare tire has been installed, put a spare fuse (15 amp) inside the FWD (Front-Wheel Drive) fuse holder (refer to your owner's manual for location). Confirm that the Front-Wheel Drive (FWD) warning light comes on before you drive the car.
Не забудьте.
 
fuji heavy

fuji heavy

Повелитель STI-хий
Окт
0
36
Проездил так на Легаси более года и все ок. Ничего не ломалось. Легаси на ручке. Причем резина спереди была новая Йока, сзади стертый Бридж. А зимой ездил, спереди новая Хака, сзади старенький GoodYear.
 
SuperMitya

SuperMitya

Повелитель STI-хий
Апр
0
36
тоже ездил все ок
 
Л

Лесник из Мериленда

Субарист
Фев
0
6
Как мне кажется, это тот самый случай, когда необходимо провести грань между исключением, которое лишь подтверждает практику.
О практике вряд ли кто сможет сказать, ибо мастера, меняющие вискомуфты, вероятнее всего, (по материальным соображениям) сейчас промолчат. Извините, если ошибаюсь, но ссылки категоричны.
Если позволите, то попробую своими словами сказать, почему нельзя:
достаточно вспомнить, что в герметичной банке в слое ПМС находятся диски. Вязкость ПМС меняется от температуры.

Subaru's constant all-wheel-drive technology - as used in the Impreza, Liberty and SVX - is designed to offer maximum traction on stable and slippery surfaces. Unlike an on-demand off-road style all-wheel-drive, the Subaru system features a limited-slip centre viscous coupling. This allows the car's front and rear tyres to follow their natural turning radius through a corner without causing driveline "binding". In addition, the viscous coupling (VC) apportions engine torque to the front and rear axles depending on the amount of tyre slippage at either end. This is known as the "torque split", where the majority of drive is automatically passed to the axle with the most traction.

Up until now, Australian Subaru AWD owners have had to make-do with the front-to-rear torque split characteristics of the factory viscous coupling. However, thanks to the recent availability of STi VCs, you can now enjoy a changed distribution of torque between the front and rear axles. We talked with Sydney's Middleton Rally Team to scoop all the inside info...

The Subaru Viscous Coupling
The Subaru's centre VC is hidden in the rear extension on the gearbox - the transfer case. This casing contains the viscous coupling unit as well as rear transfer gears (which are employed to reduce tailshaft rpm). Notice that - once removed - the VC assembly looks very similar to a conventional differential, except it contains a viscous limited slip centre. Here, the function of limiting front-to-rear drive slip is performed with a series of drive plates whose movement is opposed by a high viscosity silicone fluid.

Testing
The first step in testing your existing viscous coupling is to remove it from the vehicle. Note that there's no need to drop the entire gearbox - the transfer case simply unbolts once the tailshaft and gearbox cross member are removed. The transfer casing is then split in two and the VC is pulled out.


There are major differences between those VCs found in vehicles built before and after the MY99/Version 5-6 STi. Earlier models have a circlip on the coupling, which - when removed - allows the housing to be split and the VC cartridge to come out and to be disassembled. Post MY99s - with their stronger, 6-bolt gearbox housing - have a sealed VC assembly that's impossible to open and repack. The viscous liquid in these couplings, incidentally, is said to be very tacky and smelly.


Once the viscous coupling is extracted from the rear transfer case, MRT can perform their unique lathe test. Torque is passed from the lathe's chuck through a makeshift "pinion shaft" and into the test VC cartridge. Measurement of the torque that passes through the VC cartridge is derived from a torque wrench that's connected at a right angles to cartridge and its output shaft. Notice that testing post-MY99 VCs (which cannot be opened) requires the use of various different lathe components. Spinning the whole assembly at 100 rpm, a typical Liberty RS/Impreza WRX VC should see around 10kg/m indicated on the torque wrench. If it comes up much less, the VC is considered worn out - something that's often caused by running unequally sized tyres on the car.

Replacement VCs
There are two different viscous couplings available to suit all MY Impreza/Liberty/SVXs. Subaru Technica International (STi) produces both a 12 and 20kg/m VC to replace the standard 10kg/m VC. Notice that a slot-in cartridge is available for pre-'99s, and an entire VC assembly is available for more recent MYs. You cannot modify the original couplings. The 12kg/m item would make a subtle improvement for any mildly modified WRX, but the 20kg/m version - which is intended for competition use - certainly gives the more pronounced difference. Notice that lathe testing the 20kg/m unit is very difficult, because the extra torque transmitted through it tries to rip the torque wrench out of the operator's hands. In other words, it's bloody stiff!

And the cost? Depending on exchange rates, a 12 or 20kg/m viscous coupling - for any MY Impreza/Liberty/SVX - will cost approximately $1500. If you're in Sydney, you can choose to pay a further $250-300 in fitting labour (plus gaskets).

Effects
According to MRT rally ace Brett Middleton, the 20kg/m VC makes a major difference to the WRX's on-road performance. However, note that moving to the 20kg/m VC without any other swaybar or suspension mods will cause the car to "understeer like a pig". More typically, however, vehicles requiring a STi VC already have adjustable swaybars and suspension - which can be tailored to suit the characteristics of the new coupling.

Once correctly set-up, it's claimed that your car's turn-in response should not be jeopardised, mid-corner stability will be slightly improved and - most noticeably - you'll be able to power out from the apex much more efficiently. Instead of spinning the inside front wheel as soon as you get on the power, the car will send torque to all four wheels and accelerate away. That also means that more throttle can be applied earlier in the corner.

We're told that WRX drag racing enthusiasts will also find improvements with a STi VC. Any full-bore launch with the 20kg/m coupling will give much reduced chance of wheelspin. Conversely, braking with the heavy-duty VC provides a more equal spread of braking force to each wheel. A by-product of this is that the Subaru ABS system will kick in much later, as there will be reduced tendency to lock an individual tyre. Brett says that handbrake turns become virtually impossible with the 20kg/m coupling - even with a hydraulic handbrake. He also suggests that the biggest disadvantage of the 20kg/m coupling - on a streetcar - is its low speed manoeuvring characteristics. With increased driveline lock-up, there is noticeable fighting between the front and rear wheels.

This aside, these STi viscous couplings look like they might become the next "must have" item for the modified WRX brigade. They're certainly worth looking into if you've already spent some loot modifying your Rex and you're a keen driver...
http://autospeed.com/A_108266/cms/article.html
График изменений (пусть и для другой марки) изложен на ссылке. Для представления пространственно-временной зависимости.
http://www.cav16.co.uk/transfer/visco3.htm
Фрикционные диски, естественно, выполнены из металла.
Таким образом, чем дольше Вы будете давать возможность для слипания ведущего и ведомого дисков за счет постепенного загущения ПМС под влиянием разной угловой скорости вращения колес с разным износом(длиной окружности, диаметром, радиусом-называйте как угодно)-тем чаще механическое трение будет приводить Вас к необходимости замены вискомуфты(LSD) по причине экономии на резине.
Извините заранее за заведомое упрощение, но мне показалось, что это будет более доходчиво для понимания написанного в мануале.
 
fuji heavy

fuji heavy

Повелитель STI-хий
Окт
0
36
На сервисе мастера "ругались" что я так езжу. Говорят на автомате сразу кирдык наступит.
 
Л

Лесник из Мериленда

Субарист
Фев
0
6
Не сразу.
Убить 4ЕАТ тяжело, хотя возможно.
В автомате механизм смерти немного другой, однако по последствиям превышает стоимость вискомуфты.
Потому автору топика советую поступить так, как приведено в ссылке.
Хотя бы просто потому, что если написано лить 98 на 208 ежик, то на 92, наверное, будет не правильно ездить, хотя возможно. Но не далеко и не долго(к мотористам, например).
 
O.Shell

O.Shell

STI-льный
Авг
35
48
Лесник из Мериленда спасибо за грамотный ответ.
данный вопрос возникает с периодичностью 2-а раза в год...
я думаю, что Вам стоит данную инфу разместить в:
http://www.sti-club.su/forum/viewtopic.php?p=249691#249691
 
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